Well, well. It looks as if Patrick Brown needs Carroll Bryant’s help in tracking down role-play groups that involve minors (see Carroll’s new post, Goodreads: The Aftermath of Shame). He just recently sent an email to Carroll asking for help:
Now, before we show you Carroll’s response, we’d like to show you the email Patrick sent to Carroll on July 22, 2012, informing him that he was banned from GR:
You see that? Patrick told Carroll he was banned because he “repeatedly attacked fellow members in violation of their terms of service.” This is what the bullies reported to GR after they attacked him and this is why he was banned. Which we know is absolute bullshit given the evidence we’ve shown proving that it was Carroll who was repeatedly attacked, not the bullies. Carroll was bullied, threatened, and libeled. And to add insult to injury, he was kicked off of Goodreads for it. If you don’t believe this, take a look at these three posts:
The injustice of this makes me shaking mad. Add this to all the Bully Attacks that have happened to other authors on Goodreads and it literally makes a person sick to see this shit happen over and over again. And guess who is responsible. Guess who is not only letting it happen, but protecting those who should be disciplined for bullying others. That’s right. Patrick Brown, the GR community manager. If you’re wondering where the root of corruption on the site comes from, all you have to do is look toward him and there it is.
And if you think this is bad, keep reading. We’ll show you how Patrick flat out lied to GR members on a Goodreads feedback thread. But before we do, we want to show you Patrick’s response to Carroll when he tried to tell Patrick that it was the GR bullies who attacked him and not the other way around:
Out of office. Nice, huh? He completely blew him off.
Now, when I read Carroll’s response to Patrick’s plea for help, I almost choked up a lung laughing. You all have to check this out:
Love it! 
Touché, Carroll! Touché!
Now, we want to show you some screenshots we took from this GR feedback thread. The first few shots are of GR members complaining about the botch job GR did in deleting the sexual role-play groups:
Then, Patrick leaves this comment in response to their concerns:
We know he’s full of shit because GR was told about this very same problem years ago by their members and they (they being Patrick and the other moderators) basically did the same thing to those members as Patrick did to Carroll – totally blew them off:
So, this our message to Patrick:
Patrick, you blew off people when they tried to warn you. Then, when these problems were exposed publicly, you tried to cover them up as quickly as you could. And then, you lied about not ever having known about it. AND you have the audacity to ask Carroll for help after you treated him so badly? Seriously?!
First of all, you have no business trying to contact Carroll after you unjustly banned him. Secondly, you are the Goodreads community manager and you have to ask someone who isn’t even a part of GR anymore for help to find these groups?
What? You don’t know how to find them yourself? What does that tell us about Goodreads’ management? Lastly, you should have been on top of this from the beginning, from the time when other GR members told you about it. You should have responded then. You shouldn’t have let it happen at all and if you had been monitoring your website the way you should’ve been, this would have never happened.
This is exactly the point we made last July when you continued to let authors be attacked on the site without making any effort to stop it. The only time you ever made an effort was when it blew up in your face and GR received all the negative media attention. As one our site visitors said, you don’t care what happens on your site until it hits your bottom line. That’s the only time you act.
Shame on you, Patrick Brown! Shame on you for turning a blind eye to the abuse that not just authors, but other readers have suffered at the hands of the GR bullies! Shame on you for ignoring your members when they tried to tell you about minors being exposed to inappropriate material! And finally, shame on you for turning around and lying about it!
You need help? Here’s a helpful hint. Don’t bother trying to ask Carroll for help, because he won’t do it and he shouldn’t have to. It’s enough that he brought the problem to your attention. The rest is your responsibility.
Why the hell does this Patrick person even **need** the help of somebody he banned from his site in order to find stuff ON HIS OWN DAMNED SITE???
Good grief.
That’s why we don’t trust his email. It seems a little odd to us, too.
I agree with you. It doesn’t make sense. I would not trust them.
You’re making a mistake here, both moral and tactical. While sites like GR and Amazon have a problem with abusive reviewers, the sites are not the problem–those reviewers are. When Patrick Brown reaches out to you for help, be gracious and provide it. Otherwise, you’re just providing ammunition for the “bullies”, who can say you’re acting no better than they are.
I have a lot of sympathy for the problem that GR and Amazon are facing. If you want them to make changes in their policies, treat them as allies. I urge you to apologize to Patrick Brown for this post and encourage Carroll Bryant to be helpful. The bullies don’t take the high road. You should. Otherwise, to passersby, there’s just muck-slinging going on, and no one will want to linger to find out why.
No, Will, we’re not. First of all, given Patrick Brown’s previous decisions, we don’t trust him and we don’t think Carroll should, either. If you want to know why these attacks on authors persist on GR, it’s because he and the other moderators continue let it happen. They knowingly foster an environment where this kind of bully culture can exist.
Also, here is an excerpt from a post we did titled: Thinking of Joining Goodreads? (We will be reposting it soon.) It gives you an idea of what the GR’s community manager is like and what his intentions really are
*********************************************************************************************
We began our blog in early July 2012, to report on the bullies’ behavior and warn others about them. Our site was recognized by both the Huffington Post and USA Today. As a result of the negative media attention, Goodreads had to take action, so they publicly announced the publication of their TOS (GR Rolls Em Out). You can read the summary here on the Goodreads Wikipedia page under Criticism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodreads
So… did GR really clean up its act? Nope.
We’ll give you a few instances of what GR has done in response to this criticism:
1) A GR member named Elle wrote a mocking review that was a parody of author Simone Elkeles. Simone responded by requesting to both the reviewer and the GR moderators that the review be removed or changed as it was a misrepresentation of an author and violated GR reviewing guidelines. As a result, she was bullied in the comments of the review and her books were attacked. You can read about it in our post, The Bullying of Simone Elkeles. We checked back on Simone a few weeks later and found that Elle’s review was still there along with all her comments and the comments of the people who bullied Simone. What was missing was Simone herself. Her account and her comments had been removed from GR altogether.
2) Athena just recently spoke to a best-selling independent author over the phone and what this author had to say was shocking. A few months ago, Patrick Brown approached this author to ask her if she would endorse Goodreads. Because this author had read our blog, she told Patrick that not only would she NOT endorse Goodreads, she would tell the media that the information found on GR about books and authors is unreliable and she would tell them why. The following day, this author’s GR account was deleted from the site.
3) A GR member flagged a review that was a violation of GR TOS (according to Patrick Brown, “review the book, not the author”) and suddenly her account was deleted from GR:
Firstly, you are all doing an AMAZING job! It’s wonderful to see some bully’s wheels falling off, others stammering and ducking and changing their stories. It’s good that Goodreads are at last taking *some* measures to regulate their site. But after exhibiting such antisocial behaviour for so long, I too am at a loss as to why some “reviewers” haven’t been kicked off.
Which brings me to the amusing point of this message.
Something curious happened recently. Spurred on by your encouragement, for the first time *ever*, I flagged a review that attacked an author, a one star “review” that wasn’t about the book. A story that received attention here and on GR. Very soon thereafter my login details didn’t work. The message said that the email address was already taken, followed by a message that said that email address didn’t exist. I tried several times.
So I sent an email asking if there was a problem with my account.
:Crickets chirping:
Later, I tried again. Same confusing messages when I tried to log in. I set up another account, got into my original profile and bookshelf that way. Guess what? My reviews are gone. Poof!
Guess my termination comes under the banner: “Goodreads may permanently or temporarily terminate, suspend, or otherwise refuse to permit your access to the Service without notice and liability for any reason, including if in Goodreads’s sole determination you violate any provision of this Agreement, or *for no reason*.”
So, big question is…how far does the rot go? Are some of the moderators the morally weak minions of Ridley, Kat, Jane Little and co.? We know that Ridley has “helped out” before.
But surely that’s giving the bullies too much credit. More likely Goodreads are simply terminating readers who they suspect of supporting this blog. That would come under “for no (good) reason”, right? Are they really that scared?
Oh dear.
Frankly – although I will continue to religiously follow this blog – coz it is just so darn good! – I have to thank “whoever” for cancelling my GR account. I looked into cancelling it when this all started but couldn’t find a way to do it. Looks as if some people can behave like street gangs on a rampage – bag Goodreads far and wide, call Patrick a douche and others far worse – while others are immediately punished/stomped on/exterminated for flagging one – I repeat, one – bully “review”.
Probably should mention, my previous log in was a while ago for a positive review. I have never posted a negative review. (Each to their own, but if I don’t like a book, I don’t finish it and I wouldn’t need to rehash it.) I also don’t comment on GR threads.
Unprofessional: Thy name is GOODREADS.
I’d love to hear GRs justification. As far as I’m concerned, they suck.
4) Below is a message we received from an author who was attacked by the bullies for something she said on her blog. She appealed to the GR moderators and guess how much help she received. That’s right. None.
I’m really upset over my Goodreads comments, rate/reviews, and shelving. They scarred my product pages forever. I’ve reported them to Goodreads two and three times now and they still won’t remove them. Even the one with curse words. They will not remove it. Their TOS specifically states you cannot use slander or harassment or anything to mentally or physically hurt Goodreads members. They STILL will not remove the posts. What the hell is wrong with them?
I’m thinking Goodreads is not a friendly place for authors. Most of my friends on Goodreads are authors. I’m not really meeting the reading/buying market there. I’ve been paying for advertising on Goodreads, and so far, it isn’t paying off at all. I’m thinking that’s a waste of time. It sucks because I feel like I’m paying to have these trolls trash mine and others’ books. It’s bad enough I’m not getting sales from the clicks, but then to think I’m actually PAYING Goodreads to let these librarians and members trash books.
*********************************************************************************************
Many authors have pleaded to Patrick and the other moderators for help and do you think they received any? Yeah. Right. And Patrick has the audacity to ask an author he unjustly banned from GR for help in return? And you think we should apologize to Patrick for pointing this out? You’ve got to be kidding me.
If Patrick made an effort to stop the bullying on GR, we wouldn’t have published this post, but the fact is that he doesn’t. Instead, he makes an effort to protect those people who are causing the problems. Sorry, but we have no sympathy for him.
Sheesh, I need a magnifying glass to read this fine print – LOL! I guess my eyes are worse than I thought. My eyesight must be going the way of my thunder thighs–from bad to worse.
On a serious note, I fully agree with the decision to not take Patrick Brown’s bait. And yes, that’s what I think it is: BAIT.
Yeah, I’m another person who can vouch for Patrick Brown being unhelpful to authors. I’ve personal experience with this issue as well.
HE should be the one apologizing.
Will, I can see how it would be morally and tactically wise to help Patrick if he did reach out, but to my mind the email he sent Carroll doesn’t qualify as ‘reaching out.’ He is requesting information without promising anything in return, and possibly even with the intent of making Carroll look bad if he doesn’t comply. If Carroll has any truly disturbing information he should contact the police; Goodreads is only trying to cover its ass and I,personally, wouldn’t lift a finger to help them.
If Carroll wants to extend an olive branch, he could write back on Monday (when he’s back in the office) saying that any help he can provide is limited by the fact that he himself is not allowed on Goodreads and would endure relentless abuse if he were. See how Patrick responds to THAT.
Good point, Goronwy. He should reply with that. I wonder what Patrick would say.
I’m a STGRB supporter, but I have to agree with Will here. STGRB should be taking the high road, not making things even harder.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Another Anon. You are perfectly welcome to disagree with us. We realize that not everyone will agree with us all the time.
I take back what I said. After reading what happened to Eve on Goodreads, I should never have given Patrick the benefit of the doubt. This goes against GR ToS, so why isn’t he taking action?
That’s a very good question. We still don’t understand it, but we’re pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that Patrick doesn’t care about what happens on GR unless it threatens their business (i.e. their money) in some way.
I don’t agree. There’s a saying: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” Patrick Brown has repeatedly shown Carroll (and everyone else) who he truly is over the years… and it’s not good. The only response he deserves is exactly the one that Carroll gave him (which was extremely polite considering the response he SHOULD have gotten!).
I have been following this site for a while. I rarely use Goodreads; I find it poorly designed and there is an undercurrent of extreme viciousness there. It is with real hesitation that I write this comment, but I read Patrick’s email and my personal opinion is that he doesn’t want the information in order to help rout out these groups. He wants to be able to announce to the world that.. “Hey! Look everyone! This Carroll guy is making false accusations about me. There are no sexual role-play groups on Goodreads that can be acessed by minors. Carroll is a liar.” Whereas we know the reality. It may well be that he wants YOU to give him the ammunition to shut you down. Any site that allows open sexual role-play or even unmonitored ‘closed’ groups is saying that any sexual activity with minors is acceptable. (and I am not talking about consensual intercourse between two teenagers who might be 15 or so) And it is not. Goodreads has become more than just a cesspit of bullies preying on people who cannot defend themselves. I wonder how many of those so-called ‘closed’ role-play sites are encouraging or even actively promoting the grooming of youngsters.
Well-said. Your post gave me the shivers. I think GR should be investigated for the dangers it is posing to youth.
I felt there was an ulterior motive behind Patrick’s request. Perhaps a lawyer involved motive. Be that as it may, why are all the “good” people always expected to take the high road every time? Why can’t it be expected for once that the “bad” people take the high road? And why must I extend the olive branch? I tried that in December with the bullies. None of them accepted it. Why should I expect that Patrick Brown, protector of the bullies, would accept it? Why can’t he just extend that olive branch? Why can’t he, for the first time, do the “right” thing?
A lot of people ask Patrick for help from the bullies, but he doesn’t respond, unless it’s to punish the victim. Why then when he asks me for help, should I give it? isn’t that called karma? Isn’t that what is called “reaping what you sow”?
To receive – one must also give. I think an honest effort on Patrick’s part to reach out would have been an email similar to this:
“Mr. Bryant,
I would like to discuss about your reinstatement to Goodreads. In return, I would appreciate all information you have regarding adults and minors role-playing on my site. And any helpful advice you may have regarding GR bullies and how to deal with them.”
You see, anything along those lines would have been acceptable. With or without an apology in the manner of which I was treated by him when I was attacked.
Patrick Brown burned all of his bridges with me. It is now up to him to rebuild them. It is his responsibility – not mine.
He could also be setting up entrapment, assuming knowledge of groups with minors was of particular interest.
I thought Kara was the Community Manager? Did they get smart and sack her for supporting the trolls? Nah…
As far as I know, she’s just a moderator, but she could have been promoted to manager. Haven’t really been paying attention to her. But I know that Patrick is the head manager.
I think the reason why the managers of Good Reads don’t do anything to stop the bullies is very simple.
Money.
See, when people like this are on a site they post. They post a lot. They like to start fights and they like to fuel the fire. People respond and even if they don’t respond, they read. They refresh page after page and they come back over and over to watch the train wreck.
GoodReads makes money on their advertisements per click. I’ve run ads there. The clicks are so fast unless you set up strict parameters you could blow through a hundred bucks in minutes. Every time a post is made a topic is viewed, a thread goes up in a flame war the clicks and page views go into orbit. And guess what, Good Reads gets paid for it. Like a leech they suck the money right out of an advertiser’s account.
The actions of these individuals make a killing for GoodReads so stopping them isn’t beneficial to their bottom line. And until it costs them more to allow the abuse than to stop it, it will never end.
You could be right about that.
Where was Patrick when the bullies repeatedly attacked Carroll Bryant? Plenty of people including Carroll Bryant himself reported the attack to Patrick, but Patrick did NOTHING. Then to add insult to injury Patrick barred Carroll Bryant from GR. When Carroll emailed Patrick looking for help, Patrick said that he was too busy to help him. And now Patrick wants help??? I would be very wary of Patrick after the way he treated Carroll in the past.
Corroll Bryant was bullied on Goodreads, FACT! STGRB blog has the whole thing well documented:
http://www.stopthegrbullies.com/2013/02/01/the-attack-on-carroll-bryant/
So why didn’t Patrick step in to stop the bullies in this attack? How come Patrick never steps in to stop to bullies when they attack? Anyone can see that it is ALWAYS THE SAME GROUP OF BULLIES ATTACKING PEOPLE. Have these bullies got some sort of hold over Patrick? Do the bullies know something about Patrick? Something that he doesn’t want people finding out? Is Patrick been blackmailed by the bullies? Or is it just that Patrick enjoys watching people getting bullied on GR? So many unanswered questions!
Surely Patrick has full access to every group on GR no matter if the group is private or not. So why on earth would he need Carroll’s help? Plus Patrick was informed about those sexual RP groups in the past by other concerned GR users, but he ignored them. The whole thing sounds very suspicious indeed. Carroll, you have found Patrick to be uncaring and untrustworthy in the past, so I think you are doing the right thing now by staying well away from him.
BTW well done Carroll Bryant for exposing those sexual role-play groups on Goodreads! You really shook things up on GR. Within hours of you posting the story on your blog GR started running around in circles trying to fix things. Although it seems that they merely hid some of those groups. Hopefully GR is working on cleaning things up on their site. Lets hope they tackle the bully problem as well.
Just goes to show you how much Patrick Brown and others read this site. I find that both ironic and hilarious.
What was it that Kat Kennedy said? That no one takes STGRB seriously?
Yeah! You got that one wrong, Kat!
STELLAR post, as always, STGRB! You are always on the forefront of justice and shining the light on the truth.
If any of the powers that be at Goodreads are reading this, I highly recommend that they FIRE Patrick Brown and replace him with someone who knows how to properly run a business!
Kudos to your site for all its good work.