We’ve had another request from a site visitor to post his/her opinion piece on our blog. Below, Anonymous expresses his/her views on Goodreads’ recent growth, its independent authors, and what is happening to them.
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Goodreads likes to think of itself as a social cataloging site for bibliophiles, but its recent phenomenal growth can’t be put down to 12 million people wanting to catalog their books online. Other sites let you do that but have only a fraction of the membership. So what accounts for the fact that Goodreads more than doubled its membership between 2011 and 2012, and looks set to do the same in 2013?
My guess is that a tidal wave of self-published authors has been joining. Back in 2006, when Goodreads was founded, the notion that you could market a book to bestsellerdom using social media (see Amanda Hocking) was new and unheard of. Now it has finally trickled down to the masses, to the point that it’s now part of every indie’s received folk-wisdom, no matter how naive he or she might otherwise be. And Goodreads is always named as a good site to join if you want to schmooze about books.
But this sudden growth in Goodreads membership has brought another problem to the fore: that of amateur reviewers. It’s possible that Goodreads’ founders really did think that the site would be a great place for ordinary book lovers to congregate and swap opinions about books, but they were unprepared for other developments. Some reviewers were quick to realize the power Goodreads gave them, and were not shy about exploiting it. They realized they could review books they hadn’t read, or shelve books under abusive labels, and Goodreads didn’t object to the practise. Some reviewers were book bloggers with their own blogs, and quickly saw that Goodreads could be used to amplify attempts to favor certain writers and undermine others. So they started to use the review system to advance personal agendas, settling scores, and even for entertainment– baiting authors to see how they would react. And they haven’t stopped at Goodreads, but have extended their reach to all social media: now whatever an author says on Twitter, Facebook or elsewhere is fair game.
Most writers who hang around on Goodreads are self-published and new to the business, so they make easy marks. They’re oblivious to the politics and the personalities. A lot of them don’t seem to realize that there’s a power imbalance, and it’s not in their favor. A reviewer can trash an author’s book and call all his or her friends in to do the same, but an author can’t really do anything to a reviewer. Too many authors think they can respond to reviews, or even merely disagree with a reviewer in a public conversation without suffering consequences. They don’t see the lynch mob gathering until it’s too late, and many have suffered for it.
But is this a good development for Goodreads? Goodreads doesn’t make money off reviewers, it makes money off writers. It’s writers who pay to advertise there, not reviewers. For comparison, look at Librarything: it charges users if they want to catalog more than 200 books, and has less than one tenth of Goodreads membership. Readers aren’t anxious to pay for the privilege of joining a book cataloging site, even though Librarything has some features which make it a far better place for bibliophiles to socialize.
Goodreads probably figures that the supply of eager indies will never dry up, so it doesn’t really matter to its bottom line if some of them are driven away. But what if the word gets out that Goodreads is becoming a place where writers are attacked if they piss off a reviewer? What if it gets out that there are book bloggers out there who use authors as bait to drive up traffic to their blogs? Will authors still keep flocking to Goodreads, or will they find less angst-ridden ways of promoting their work? If enough authors come to the realization that Goodreads is a dangerous place, it could be the start of a sea-change in the way social media is used to market books.
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This blog is such a brave front of positive in the darkness! I have found such well researched advice on this page and I applaud you for it. This site has also inspired me and brought my courage back and I thank you sincerely for it! Keep up the wonderful work of bringing the light and positive experience back to reading. I believe the more people realize that the attacks are not personal but rather done out of malicious boredom, order will be restored. Stay strong writers, stay strong for you are not alone
Any author who sets up an author page on goodreads has just signed their death warrant. It’s only a matter of time till GR Bullies or others target them. It has created a culture where members feel it’s okay to revenge review authors through their work, and Gooodreads lack of moderation only shows that they support it. Goodreads, imo, is the scum of the reading/writing/publishing world. This post, among many, are surfacing on a daily bases. I wrote one a couple of months ago myself, and their are hundreds more across the internet.
In the end, Goodreads will be forced to clean up their website and enforce their TOS or face major financial problems. I already shutdown my advertising dollars to them, and I urge others to do the same. Last I checked, membership does not pay bills, money does, and unfortunate to goodreads, that money comes from Authors. I bet that stings.
I don’t know any business – that stays in business – that mistreats or neglects its paying customers except credit card companies, but that’s another matter!
This is a great post.
I honestly feel that Goodreads is nothing more than a ‘pump and dump’ website. I believe their goal is to ‘pump’ up their membership as much as possible in order to ‘dump’ it on the highest bidder.
It would be interesting to know who would buy that site. Amazon already has Shelfari, so who would want GR?
I won’t go into the new Indie myth of social promotion at the expense of writing new work that so many authors are buried in. Nope, I’m going to be good about that particular MYTH.
(the writing world has sooooo many myths)
Because the issue isn’t about that. Not at the basic level.
As I told an author recently, despite what the Goodreads Bully’s screaming insists, the site IS NOT only for readers. It is not a place authors do not belong. Goodreads regularly reaches out to authors and asks them to come and participate. For giveaways, for forums, for blogs, as librarians, for advertising, to promote affiliate links to buy said book, to encourage ever more activity to make their site ever more popular and profitable.
In other words, it’s a literature social site, with all sides of the industry and culture welcome.
Their screams of “This place isn’t for you. It’s only for reviewers. Go away or we wil destroy you” does not apply. Why? Because Goodreads isn’t owned by them, and the true owners actively tell authors to come over. If they scream that is is owned by them, then I want to see one of their names on the domain registry and their name on the forms when they pay the site’s federal taxes.
I want to make this clear. The OWNERS of Goodreads wants AUTHORS on their site. The OWNERS of Goodreads wants AUTHORS active on their site. GOODREADS makes money off of AUTHORS, and they want it to continue so they can continue to, I don’t know, make money and stay in business.
How dare a BUSINESS do that.
Oops. The bullies are liars again. What a shocker.
“But what if the word gets out that Goodreads is becoming a place where writers are attacked if they piss off a reviewer?”
Already happening. I actively (and quietly) warn writers about the dangers of Goodreads at a big online writer’s site, and divert them to other sites. I’m not the only one. On a big mailing list, any time Goodreads is brought up, we bring up this subject as a warning so an author is prepared if they choose to enter the shark-filled waters that is Goodreads.
Life is too short to put up with the activities of the bullies. For me personally, life is too short to even deal with Goodreads, no matter how many invitations they send me to participate. Right now, until Goodreads cleans up its act, I am going elsewhere.
(Gee, a little more and I could have a guest post for you myself!
)
It is such a shame that Goodreads is destroyed by all that hate. Goodreads should in theory be a really useful & enjoyable site for everyone, especially Self published authors. I’ll never understand all the hate directed at authors? Who made up the “rule” that an author doesn’t have the right to reply to a review on his/her book? If a reviewer is going to take it upon themselves to review a book then the reviewer should expect the author to have an opinion on that review. Its a natural human reaction. Once the reviewer & author are both polite & fair then there shouldn’t be a problem.
I am obviously not a author (you’d never guess! Tee-Hee!
) so it is easy for me to say don’t read the hateful comments posted by trolls. But in my experience it is best to completely avoid reading them. Its like giving up a bad habit, the more you fight the urge to read the hate, the less interested you are in ever reading it. Trust me, I learned this the hard way! All bully comments say the same old boring things any way. If you don’t read the hate then you won’t feel the impulse to reply. Bliss!!!
I totally understand that sometimes it is hard not to reply to the trolls. I recently had a run-in with the trolls because they posted my real name on the Amazon public forum. I had chosen to use a user-name on Amazon for personal reasons, but the trolls decided to post my real name any way. They said their reason for posting my real name was because I read & comment on this blog (STGRB.) I was upset so I said my piece on the forum. Strangely some of them (but not all of them) eventually admitted what they did was wrong & they apologized, but it is extremely rare to get an outcome like that.
Due to the fact that my real name was posted on the public forum I have decided to completely stay away from the Amazon Forum and Goodreads until these forums deal with the trolls. It seems that somehow my personal information was leaked from my Amazon account. I don’t know if my account was hacked or what happened? The trolls only posted my first name along with my user-name for now, but one of them openly taunted me by admitting to having plenty more of my personal information. So I’ve canceled my credit card ect. I imagine if I popped back into one of those sites in a years time I would see the very same trolls still fighting, ranting & hating.
In a way I feel sort of sorry for the trolls, or maybe its more pity that I feel for them. They can’t have a happy personal life. They spend all of their waking hours fighting on-line, its not just the odd day, its EVERY day, post after post after post after post…. It must be so unhealthy to be that negative all the time. If they had a loving family & friends in their lives then surly they would spend more time with their loved ones & less time in a blind rage. It is true that most bullies were bullied themselves, this doesn’t excuse what they do it just explains it. On-line bullies are the most cowardly & childish of all bullies, they don’t have to bully their victim face to face, its very sly.
My heart goes out to any author who has had their work attacked. I imagine this could have a very bad impact on their book
In-fact my heart goes out to anyone who has been bullied in anyway. Since buying my Kindle I have read mainly self published authors. Most of these books have been really brilliant, some are even off the scale amazing!!!
Just remember there will always be more lovers of books then there are haters of books! <3 <3 <3
Sorry to hear they pulled your info out. They did the same to me when I confronted the forum with a question about likes, tweets etc on free books. I was a bit sarcastic, but truly, I just wanted a few simple answers without them targeting my work or me. Somebody dug through amazon and took a stab at who I was. Before I knew it, my books were being shelved all over godoreads as BBA. I had 1* reviews piling up at goodreads. Another showed up on amazon, and like a newbie, I took the bait and responded. I called it a troll review. That was it then they used that as ammo to show what a really super bad author I was because I attacked reviewers! Oh my! Get real already.
I’ve never attacked a reviewer. The one review I did reply to showed up the same day they were shelving my books and rating them all over goodreads due to the debacle. I had very good reason to believe it was a ‘revenge review’, but they refused to believe somebody would do such thing. They knew it, they just wouldn’t admit to it. They’re just a bunch of trolls that will do anything to get a rise out of others. They even turn on each other.
Anyhow, next thing you know they start yelling that i hate READERS. How stupid can one get? Because I was rude to them somehow translated into I hate ALL readers. They just can’t get it. I was rude because they were rude to me. End. Of. Story. Then to be jackasses, they all rush over to that very same review and boost the rating and then try to play innocent like it’s no big deal – I deserved it. Then when I ask friends to go down rate it on twitter because they all BOOSTED it, they go fucking ballistic that I did that. Lol at the hypocrisy. Don’t do as they do, it’s wrong! Funny shit.
Gill, do you or did you have an Amazon wish list? Unless you change it, your real name is displayed on your public wish list.
Your second last paragraph is spot on.
Hi Another Anon!
No they didn’t get my real name from my wish list because I have it on private. They “said” that they guessed my name! Eh? Ok! Then one of them openly admitted to having more of my private information & said I should thank her not not posting all of it. Real classy! I reckon there is a good chance one of them hacked my Amazon account, we all know how totally obsessed they are! That is why I cancelled my credit card, I wasn’t taking any chances. I also changed my e-mail and password on my Amazon account. They came out with big apologies to me for posting my real name & for calling me names, that makes me think even more so that they could have hacked my account because them seem very worried.
M.T.Dismuke I am so sorry to hear what they did to you, it is so much worse when it is someone’s work that they are attacking.
Most people ignore them, but the odd person who actually bothers to read their comments can clearly see that they totally twist peoples words & lie. I hardly ever use GR & I have no reason to ever go near the Amazon forum again, so thankfully its all in the past now. I’m sure they’ll find plenty of people to fight with, they never stop. Take care M.T.
Daily Bulletin:
the bullies are attacking Jaq Hawkins, who has been a target in the past. Coaxial Creature, Zahara Cerise (Anna Karenina), Issendai and several other of the usual suspects have been at it for a week now. Hard to believe that some people really have nothing better to do FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/403926055
As a footnote, Coaxial should really, really try to write shorter reviews. Not just because brevity is the soul of wit, but because unsuspecting customers could die of old age trying to finish them.
A 2000-word review of a book Coaxial hated from the get-go? I have much better things to do with my time than waste it reading a book I didn’t like from 2% in.
Have you all seen this?
http://bestsellerlabs.com/why-every-author-must-be-on-goodreads
Just today someone posted a comment that says:
It’s ironic I should happen across this article today when I’ve been reading more and more writer advice that says to avoid Goodreads because of the troll problem and fake reviews that litter the site. Apparently there are cyber gang wars going on and book pages being defaced by an organized trolling group and GR won’t do anything about it. Many authors are skipping the site in their marketing and known professional writers like Neil Gaiman are avoiding the site because of *policies* on Goodreads.
It’s here:
http://bestsellerlabs.com/why-every-author-must-be-on-goodreads/#comment-2918
Whoa! I see Anna Karenina has responded to the critics and defended Goodreads! Does she work for Goodreads?
The guy who wrote the article is deleting dissenting comments. Legit comments.
I’ve avoided the GR forum like the plague. It’s the only place I don’t market my books. I never put my book up there (someone else did) and will never have an author page. When MT said that place is the kiss of death for any author that puts up an author page, I completely agree. I’ve seen too many friends have their careers destroyed over there by hate-filled trolls.
I’m a bit confused about Mr. Gunson’s Goodreads post. I looked up his author account on Goodreads of which he speaks so highly of, and I found his profile and book listings questionable. He has not updated any of his info or has made any posts. He has not uploaded product, author, or book links at all. His books don’t even have cover art. Given he recommended Goodreads without any understanding of how it works says a bit about his practice. I think his post was basically an attempt to gain buyers for his how to use twitter books and his goodreads post is to help qualify him as an professional. That’s my take on him. I think your link back to his website completely derailed his attempts to gain more readers. lol. I’m sure he just landed himself a blip on the BBA radar.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/665060.Jonathan_Gunson
Correction. He hasn’t even joined goodreads under an author account. WTF.
LMAO! You’re right! I checked to see if it’s the same person and it is. I looked at his FB page. He’s the author of The Merlin Mystery.
I know… I almost wish I didn’t look now. Not only does he NOT have a Goodreads account, NONE of his How to Twitter for Author books are listed on Goodreads nor his FREE Author Guide… The WTF’s just keep coming.
Anon is right. He is removing dissenting comments claiming that they were “personal” comments. There were two posted that just disagreed with his post. That’s it. No name calling. Nothing “personal” in them. They were just opinions on his article and he deleted them. I wish I’d gotten a screen shot. I did just now, though. Someone’s been confronting him about removing comments.
I saw that and he just now deleted that guy’s comments. Apparently, he doesn’t like anyone disagreeing with him.
Did you get screengrabs of Jon’s comments, Johnny?
I sure did. I think we may be doing a post on this soon. MT nailed it. The WTF’s just keep coming.